These were kids that didn't end up with Barbara? Baby, be careful. Oh you said it so much more diplomatically. PAT: But were getting ahead of ourselves here. PAT: Isaiah's in college and Taylor and Brandon, I met them at Barbara's house and they seemed to be fine. SAM KEAN: Basically, the midwife toad has a strange habit for toads. Barbara started finding herself on panels with women who'd use drugs during their pregnancies. JAD: Or does it get passed on such a deep level that doesn't even require teaching? CARL ZIMMER: She carries your kids for nine months and you're like, "That poor male toad.". And even though they look basically nothing alike. Started with the tongue. It might be a mixture. JAD: That is impossible, so far as we know, but there seems to be this layer on top of the genes. You know what they're going to go do with that money. That you can, somehow, by just being nice to them, reading them stories, or whatever, that you can somehow break them free of all that. ROBERT: He was a born nurturer and he adored animals. Kinda makes me claustrophobic. CARL ZIMMER: You know, the fact is that taking care of animals, trying to keep them alive in a building is not an easy thing, especially if it's 1903. This lady right here is still taking drugs and she could be pregnant again next month.]. ROBERT: Because it's got the thing stuck to it? CARL ZIMMER: mouse or rat? They have six, seven, eight, ten, fourteen.]. Radiolab believes your ears are a portal to another world. I mean, it's pretty common but like, here's a for instance, my dad from my entire life had this thing where if someone was whistling, he would. JAD: And what about the four kids that weren't raised with Barbara? He said, "If you were a boy, and you starve between the ages of 9 and 12, and then you went on to become a father, then a grandfather, your grandkids". We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. I said, "This will be the last one. ROBERT: So, somehow, by some chemical mechanism, starving grandpa, back when he was about 9 to 12 years old, turned out to be a good thing. You just have to weigh it, is it worth it? You can't see that on the radio but, hey, it's a fact of life. Kammerer puts on a suit and he walks off into the mountains Outside Vienna on a Rocky mountain trail. You've got these toads who hate water. And I knew that the only way I was going to get a daughter was if I went and became a foster parent and asked for one. In my naive mind, I didn't have a clue what a big deal this was. Radiolab Society & Culture Science Latest Transcripts What Up Holmes? You know, like if you're abused as a kid, you were more likely to abuse your kid, but still, you got to wonder. Once a kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed. JAD: In any case, what they saw at the end of all this counting wasWell, first of all, what they saw was this pattern that rat pups who got licked a lot as babies, when they grew up, they licked their babies a lot and the rat pups who didn't get licked a lot, when they grew up, they didn't lick their babies. PAT: It would be wrong to assume the women Barbara talks about on TV [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: These women don't just have one and two babies. Are you nine? But I take it that we have more control over our destinies and our kids' destinies than we would've thought. Push yourself and you got it.". JAD: I got to say this is spooky. SMITTY HARRIS: He was just You know, most babies are kinda peaceful, he was never really peaceful. OLOV BYGREN: So they didn't starve to death. If you've already had a kid, you can be sterilized. It's only the mechanisms are not so clear. The sperm carries these marks to the next generation. PAT: And in 1989, when the story we're telling now started, she was living in California, in Orange County. JAD: Most toads, he says, love to stay in the water. More brain cells? Just to be sure, we asked Frances Champagne what she thinks of this data. He was miserable to look at. CARL ZIMMER: Is your wife going to hear this? And all over the political spectrum, from Hollywood lefties to social conservatives. A few years later, there'd be a harsh winter. All these chemicals racing by crashing into it, sticking, and one of the bits that gets covered up is that little bit that makes the proteins that create a maternal instinct. Maybe more. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: Putting this into context, you know, you have a rat mom and they have about 16 to 20 babies. By all accounts a pretty good-looking guy. So Barbara and her son got in the car and drove across town to the foster home where Destiny had been living for the past eight months. A little village? Okay, so lets get going and stick with your boy, Lamarck, just for a sec. He'd fall asleep and just wake up screaming. And The other day someone was whistling and I was like, "Stop it", and it just hit me, I was like, "Oh God, I was him", it's never appeared until now. When they got another call from a social worker saying that same mother, Destiny's birth mother, had given birth to another child. What a name, you've got to like this guy. That's really impressive. Once a kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed. So that's fun. LATIF: Still, still standing. That's a lot of people. SAM KEAN: Except he had one. I was just pissed at what they have done to my children. Wow. I agree with Lynn, that this program does perpetuate a stereotype. He's the guy who told us about Olov's work. That was nice. I make a difference to her. JAD: These are four kids from the same birth mother? PAT: Barbara started finding herself on panels with women who'd use drugs during their pregnancies. More of this particular protein. JAD: What can't you? But, I said this to Lynn, "Despite all the things that trouble me about Barbara's program, I feel like what she's trying to do is to stop a kid from getting born into a childhood that's going to suck.". We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. It was just no baby should have to come into the world like that. JAD: In those books you can read everything about the citizens of verkalix, going back hundreds of years. And they had more. If they see methyl groups sitting on that bit of DNA, they are pissed. JAD: Look, in the end, what do I know? You dont really say it to yourself that way, but yeah. Riksarkivet. CARL ZIMMER: And he says, "This isn't a nuptial pad, it looks darkened but that's just ink.". ROBERT: By all accounts a pretty good-looking guy. They present previous theories on evolution and then present the currently accepted Darwinian Theory of Evolution. BARBARA HARRIS: "She's born and tested positive for PCP crack and heroin." DESTINY HARRIS: That's my little girl. To any drug-addicted woman who will agree to have no more babies. But the story he told us begins around 25 years ago. But with the midwife toad, the female SAM KEAN: Lays her eggs on land and then the male midwife toad comes along SAM KEAN: And actually kind of sticks them to his back legs, like a bunch of whitish grapes, and then hops around with them basically until they hatch. I mean that's a different kind of odds, but its DESTINY HARRIS: Hi, this is Destiny Harris. We ask deep questions and use investigative journalism to get the answers. PAT: She did. Or is it? BARBARA HARRIS: And I knew that the only way I was going to get a daughter was if I went and became a foster parent and asked for one. I mean, when you look at the records, you don't see huge spikes in mortality. ROBERT: Well, that's the good news, but unfortunately there is some bad news here. Yes, but creating an assumption that there is a class of people who don't deserve to procreate, who aren't worthy of procreating the human race, leads you down a path that we should have great concern about. She's 22 now and she's never even met her birth mom. Assuming that you can survive the ordeal, and you grow up, and you have kids of your own, the data seems to say that your kids will benefit from your suffering. Lots of money. BARBARA HARRIS: I already knew that if I ever got a little girl, I was going to name her Destiny. And then they're going to basically revel at that particular spot and turn on that gene. CARL ZIMMER: He actually named his daughter Lacerta, which is a genus of lizard. Like have you ever had one of those moments where you suddenly are your dad and it catches you off guard? Isaiah's in college and Taylor and Brandon, I met them at Barbara's house and they seemed to be fine. She said, "Well, she's just beautiful and she has lips like a baby doll." Also, thanks to Carl Zimmer whose latest is. Yeah, there you go. Just until they hatch and then 'til they go off. You just have to weigh it, is it worth it? PAT: You picked him up right from the hospital? Because the Soviets, they believe in Karl Marx's idea that human beings were an improvable species, that if you can change the conditions around people, you change the people. Like, mine are bigger, you know." JAD: Because while you might have a lot of influence, you know, genetically speaking, over your kids and their kids, you don't seem to have a lot of control. She asked my opinion and that's what I'm giving. JAD: But were gonna play you stories where JAD: This is Radiolab. More what kind of stuff? The show is nationally syndicated and is available as a podcast. You know? But what exactly Maybe you can explain this to me, Robert. The kingdom archive. SAM KEAN: Because it would reflect badly on the Soviet state. The team that creates each episode, including hosts Jad Abumrad and Robert Krulwich, are master storytellers. And at first, it didn't go so well because, you know, if you're a land toad and you're trying to have sex in the water, it's kind of hard. A really good radiolab about this called Inheritance. You can't change your DNA. Including a particular amphibian that plays a very big part in this story. LULU: So far. I wonder how much you believe in it. I had everybody's abuse on my back and I didn't care how we said it, or how we did it. JAD: When rats have more of this protein, they will act more motherly. Darwin's theory would have said, you know, 90% of the toads are going to die. PEJK MALINOVSKI: He was an idiot. FRANCES CHAMPAGNE: At once and we're watching 40 litters at a time. Thanks to Frances Champagne and Michael Meany and Sam Kean, who writes about Paul Kammerer in his book, . That's how I've always looked at it. JAD: People can't just will themselves into a more perfect form. You know, inside these cells, in the center, coiled up in little spools, is the DNA. Hosted by Lulu Miller and Latif Nasser, Radiolab is a podcast known for using innovative sound design to ask deep questions and investigative journalism to get the answers. Inheritance | Radiolab Podcast 4,710 views Apr 8, 2022 Radiolab 43.8K subscribers From the Radiolab podcast: How your grandfather's diet can affect your lifespan, heart health and even. But in the middle of a conversation about how to fight the virus, we find a place impervious to the stalled plans and frenetic demands of the outside world. And these effects, in fact, were so strong that you could trace it to the grandfather. SAM KEAN: And he would basically turn the heat way, way up in these aquariums until they had to go underwater. ROBERT: Thats what Darwin says, you cant. SAM KEAN: And his lab ended up getting destroyed. Who are they? ROBERT: So then the one that's in trouble, so thats one of one of eight? DESTINY HARRIS: I do mean that. Thanks to Olov Bygren, reporter Pejk Malinovski and Karin Borgkvist Ljung, and I'm a senior archivist at the National Archive in Marieberg in Stockholm. I mean, when you look at the records, you don't see huge spikes in mortality. That's the stuff that makes you you. And he was going through withdrawal. But, I said this to Lynn, "Despite all the things that trouble me about Barbara's program, I feel like what she's trying to do is to stop a kid from getting born into a childhood that's going to suck.". Yes. All the babies I had seen and all the people that have called me to tell me about their babies that were damaged. I wouldn't want to put it up to chance, because what kind of life is that? Did you know there is a part of this show is gonna be like crazy breaking news, like happened yesterday and we already have a deep take on it? PAT: Which I find kind of hard to believe but, then again, I must have read at least 100 news articles as I was reporting this story. LULU: And were trying to think about how do we keep it the same in a lot of ways, but also how do we let it grow into something beyond what it was originally built to be. SAM KEAN: He extended this idea to people. But it failed. You got to kick it back. Brain disease. JAD: If they see methyl groups sitting on that bit of DNA, they are pissed. SAM KEAN: No, they did not have them on land. But I'm going to give them a basin of water. These are four kids from the same birth mother? More brain cells? JAD: Serotonin gets into the brain cells, and according to Michael unleashes MICHAEL MEANEY: A whole series of molecular events inside the cell. You know? Wait, when you say they can choose to be sterilized, you mean permanent? But she says, you can tell right away, just by looking, that some rat moms don't lick their kids a lot. She's somewhere, but it's not good from what we've heard. JAD: Or very many of them right at all, but, you know, his basic idea seems to be true. So. Yeah. Did that scare you at all? CARL ZIMMER: More information about Sloan at JAD: Yeah, we're exploring questions of lwhat can you pass down to your kids and their kids? ROBERT: Although, you know, sometimes that your grandfather's suffering helps you. And The other day someone was whistling and I was like, "Stop it", and it just hit me, I was like, "Oh God, I was him", it's never appeared until now. But here's what I did not know about DNA. Where we began, they will accomplish. JAD: We ended up talking to the guy who did the work. RADIOLAB Podcast "Inheritance" Homework Assignment Name: Rohan Desai PSUID: 9 6241 8529 Listen to the first three stories of the "Inheritance" Radiolab Podcast (Control + click on link to access podcast. SAM KEAN: And the key point is that it wasnt something inborn in them. Sat her on my lap, with her little dress on and her little curly hair. I have to be creative.". MICHAEL MEANEY: Known as transcription factors. Well, its offensive. And she says oftentimes the women who want help have a really hard time finding it. These are women who love their children, who sought help. PAT: The question that was stuck in my head right then was, "If you could choose between being born knowing that your life might end up like that and not like it is now, or not been born at all, what would you have done?". Ears are a portal to another world we did it rat mom and they seemed be. What I 'm giving just wake up screaming `` that poor male toad. `` be,. Drug-Addicted woman who will agree to have no more babies books you can read everything the. Kid is born, their genetic fate is pretty much sealed his daughter Lacerta, which is genus... Have about 16 to 20 babies inborn in them poor male toad. `` end. 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